Would I buy an EV if I could drive 20 mph faster?

"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
11/05/2018 at 13:55 • Filed to: None

Yes. Yes, I would.

(today’s 2nd Gear)

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DISCUSSION (64)

CaptDale - is secretly British > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
11/05/2018 at 13:57

Eh, I’d be more inclined to say f uck Austria .

Spanfeller is a twat > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
11/05/2018 at 13:59

I think that non-hybrid, mass market vehicles should be taxed at a 50% rate in three years time (so that manufacturers have time to retrofit a hybrid drive into all cars). I say mass market as to avoid a hybrid Aston Martin Cygnet

HammerheadFistpunch > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
11/05/2018 at 13:59

We all know the inverse square law only applies to gasoline.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Spanfeller is a twat
11/05/2018 at 14:05

I’m taxed enough - thanks, though!

Spanfeller is a twat > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
11/05/2018 at 14:08

I mean for new cars.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > CaptDale - is secretly British
11/05/2018 at 14:09

Yeah, not saying it’s the right decision, but if it’s the law of the land...

Lots of places are having to deal with a replacement for gasoline taxes that are used for road maintenance. EVs shouldn’t get a free ride in this respect, but in many places, they do. If they’re using the roads like everyone else, they should pay their part, even if they’re not buying gasoline.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Spanfeller is a twat
11/05/2018 at 14:09

Yeah, still no. =)

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
11/05/2018 at 14:10

I’d buy one either way, but especially if I could legally do 100mph between home and school

CaptDale - is secretly British > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
11/05/2018 at 14:10

Oh yes! I wholly agree that EV people need to pay their share of using the roads.

WilliamsSW > Spanfeller is a twat
11/05/2018 at 14:13

That’s a great way to cut new car sales by 75%.

WilliamsSW > HammerheadFistpunch
11/05/2018 at 14:14

Also, it’s a good thing that speed differentials don’t matter.

For Sweden > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
11/05/2018 at 14:14

I’d buy an EV now if I wasn’t cheap.

WilliamsSW > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
11/05/2018 at 14:15

All the time on all the roads? Maybe. On just a few limited access highways in congested areas? Eh, probably not.

WilliamsSW > CaptDale - is secretly British
11/05/2018 at 14:15

This is the correct take. It’s a stupid idea.

Spanfeller is a twat > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
11/05/2018 at 14:17

But why not? We need fewer emissions in cities. It isn’t even an environmental thing, it’s a health thing. If fewer people catch asthma or lung cancer due to emissions, your health insurance should go down.

For Sweden > Spanfeller is a twat
11/05/2018 at 14:17

I think that non-hybrid, mass market vehicles should be taxed

I’m open to this

at a 50% rate

(°° []

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > CaptDale - is secretly British
11/05/2018 at 14:18

What’s a reasonable way to do this? If the gas tax stays in place, do EV owners have to report mileage and pay based on that? Or it could be a tire tax just on them, I suppose... but that would lead to people driving around on bald tires. No great way to do it.

The gasoline tax is a pretty good model for a consumption tax , except that it’s pretty regressive (hits poor people harder). High gas prices/taxes encourage people to buy more efficient vehicles, or consider alternate forms of transport.

Spanfeller is a twat > WilliamsSW
11/05/2018 at 14:19

Come one, we even have hybrid trucks nowadays... it doesn’t have to be a huge hybrid drive system, just something that cuts on NOX and CO2 emissions in heavy traffic.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > sm70- why not Duesenberg?
11/05/2018 at 14:19

YES. Range anxiety be damned.

CobraJoe > HammerheadFistpunch
11/05/2018 at 14:20

We all know the inverse square law only applies to gasoline.

I know it’s less efficient to go faster... but if I left home every morning with a “full tank” and had plenty of range left over every night, I wouldn’t worry about wasting a little bit of cheap electricity at all.

E92M3 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
11/05/2018 at 14:20

I mean it w ould be nice to have the option to go 20mph faster, but the extra wind res istance is not good for range.

CaptDale - is secretly British > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
11/05/2018 at 14:23

I think the easiest way from a government standpoint would be a registration tax every year with mileage verification. Though that could potentially hit very hard for the consumer. If the government could do anything correctly I would say have a nice website you could do a monthly verification for mileage and tax payment.

Spanfeller is a twat > For Sweden
11/05/2018 at 14:23

I would’ve thought the objection would be to the time frame

WilliamsSW > Spanfeller is a twat
11/05/2018 at 14:24

It’s too much, too quick- you’re talking about adding a shitload of batteries and what not to 14 million cars within 3 years. The infrastructure (and maybe even raw materials) isn’t there to make that quick of a transition.

For Sweden > Spanfeller is a twat
11/05/2018 at 14:25

Time frame is OK , but the directive is heavy-handed. I like the fleetwide emissions target model. It lets the manufacturer s decide which technology to use, and overperorming manufacturers can sell credits to underperforming manufacturers .

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
11/05/2018 at 14:25

If you have plenty of range to spare, sure. But my EV commuter loses range rapidly once I start going even around 60mph, so something to be aware of. Also cold weather range degredation - I’m really curious how many people have gotten screwed over with EVs that barely fit their range requirements with those two factors.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Spanfeller is a twat
11/05/2018 at 14:27

I say incentivize buying hybrids or electrics instead of heavily taxing regular ICE vehicles. If gas taxes need to go up as well, so be it. Either way, it has to be a staged progression of change , not an on/off switch of penalties. I agree with you that something has to be done, the problem is, modern countries may make the change, but companies that are still industrializing have far less motivation to do so (and China & India are the ones that really are going to make the difference - thankfully they’re starting to see the light).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/energyinnovation/2018/05/30/chinas-all-in-on-electric-vehicles-heres-how-that-will-accelerate-sales-in-other-nations/#33b7d410e5c1

Spanfeller is a twat > WilliamsSW
11/05/2018 at 14:28

I mean, these systems should have 20kWh batteries at most . No more... Something to get around town. Maybe three years is too much though... five sounds better?

Spanfeller is a twat > For Sweden
11/05/2018 at 14:29

That’s really good as well. It’s important to note that Mazda has one of the best CAFE results despite selling no hybrids. But it should be made stricter

HammerheadFistpunch > CobraJoe
11/05/2018 at 14:30

I just think the logic is funny. Energy is energy, if you consume more on the road but fill up with dirty power you are still contributing more pollution going faster than going slower. I’ m not saying that math between gas and EV is equity either, I just think its funny logic.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > WilliamsSW
11/05/2018 at 14:31

Yeah, I want the all the time, everywhere arrangement.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > For Sweden
11/05/2018 at 14:31

At least you’re honest. Which one?

Spanfeller is a twat > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
11/05/2018 at 14:32

Every country should take action. A gas tax is what most environmentalists recommend, which is basically a carbon tax. Perhaps asking for hybrids could be misguided; if people have better fuel economies they might feel incentivized to drive more. But we should also tax things that cause problems. Incentives sometimes don’t go far enough. After all, one of the heaviest hitters to tobacco sales was... a tobacco tax.

Spanfeller is a twat > HammerheadFistpunch
11/05/2018 at 14:37

Well, electric motors have a much higher thermal efficiency rate than ICE motors (I think Tesla motors are at the high 80s or low 90s range while typical ICE motors are at around 30%) , so the impact of letting them drive 20mph faster is still lower than the impact of a typical ICE engine at 60-70mph. This also noting that even if your electric car is powered by coal, the electric car is still less environmentally damaging over time.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > CaptDale - is secretly British
11/05/2018 at 14:37

For EVs only, or for everyone, in place of the gas tax? T he mileage thing doesn’t reward the drivers who choose more fuel-efficient vehicles, unless there’s a modifier based on how efficient a car you own (based on EPA ratings, I guess ).

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
11/05/2018 at 14:38

Yup. I’m thinking 10 mile commute at 100 mph sounds pretty good!

WilliamsSW > For Sweden
11/05/2018 at 14:39

“tell me where to go - don’t tell me how to get there”

Government regulations work better when they stick to that mantra.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Spanfeller is a twat
11/05/2018 at 14:42

“Should” - yes, I agree. Gas taxes also hit many small business owners very hard who rely on their vehicles or transporting goods for their livelihood. EVs often just don’t make sense for some of these applications. Just making the point that there are always unintended consequences to any decision.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > WilliamsSW
11/05/2018 at 14:43

https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2018/02/27/the-worlds-cobalt-supply-is-in-jeopardy/#4d26bbaa1be5

Spanfeller is a twat > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
11/05/2018 at 14:44

Every business size has issues with carbon taxes... Maybe extending the federal tax credit in EVs (maybe giving a tax cut for Hybrids and a scrapping bonus for non-hybrids) for small business under a certain gross income bracket could help them sort something out.

CobraJoe > HammerheadFistpunch
11/05/2018 at 14:45

It’s absolutely funny logic, but it’s also kind of logical...

After all, convincing the public to buy electric cars is the hard part. Upgrading the grid and reducing pollution from power plants is as easy as passing a law and/or investing some taxpayer money.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
11/05/2018 at 14:49

Hell yes I would.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > HammerheadFistpunch
11/05/2018 at 14:51

I find these maps interesting.

Kinja'd!!!

HammerheadFistpunch > Spanfeller is a twat
11/05/2018 at 14:51

Thats only part of the story

Kinja'd!!!

Electric motor efficiency drops SUBSTANTIALLY with speed.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > E92M3
11/05/2018 at 14:52

Time is money, homie! =)

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
11/05/2018 at 14:54

I’d just drive 20 mph faster anyway, put some EV stickers on my Mazda and be all good.

HammerheadFistpunch > CobraJoe
11/05/2018 at 14:54

They do have a goal to be 100% renewable by 2050.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
11/05/2018 at 14:55

Good luck with that!

WilliamsSW > Spanfeller is a twat
11/05/2018 at 14:55

It’s a question for the supply chain, really.

However, I believe that telling companies * how* to reduce emissions will lead to far more unintended ( and negative) consequences than just telling them to reduce emissions to a certain level.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Spanfeller is a twat
11/05/2018 at 14:56

Yeah, I just hate it hitting the working poor who are the least able to deal with any increase in overhead.

Spanfeller is a twat > HammerheadFistpunch
11/05/2018 at 14:59

So do ICE engines

HammerheadFistpunch > Spanfeller is a twat
11/05/2018 at 15:01

N ot nearly as badly, ICE engines are in their thermal sweet spot on the highway, conversely electric motors consume exponentially more power with speed and load.

Spanfeller is a twat > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
11/05/2018 at 15:02

Small businesses are better and they need to be protected, i agree. But they also need to be held accountable and to a high standard, or else large business can take advantage of customers wanting a more “socially responsible business “

For Sweden > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
11/05/2018 at 15:02

Probably a Bolt

Spanfeller is a twat > HammerheadFistpunch
11/05/2018 at 15:13

The thermal sweet-spot depends on the engine too , and it could be as low as 50mph...

kanadanmajava1 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
11/05/2018 at 15:27

No, but m y household already has one (it’s my brother’s). It has fairly small battery ( 16 kWh) so I’m more willing to go 20 km/h slower than the rest.

Slow -> more range

Fast -> less range

An electric vehicle might be energy efficient but the capacity of their batteries is extremely small if we compare it to liquid fuel. If I round up some corners from my calculations that certain car’s battery is equivalent of a bit less than 5 liters of gasoline.

HammerheadFistpunch > Spanfeller is a twat
11/05/2018 at 15:33

not...really. Because gearing. Normally an engine’s sweet spot is in the 1600-2800 rpm range

Kinja'd!!!

Which a 6+ speed transmission will easily keep any engine at on a freeway will into 80+ mph, whereas an electric motor needs to spin in direct relation to speed x final.

The point Im trying to make is that a 20 kph delta in an EV isn’t going to differ THAT much from a 20 kph delta in an ICE car in terms of consumed energy. Depending on where that energy is from (Anywhere from 40-70% petroleum in Austria depending on season) then you are still contributing more to pollution going faster than slower no matt er what fuel your vehicles uses .

But like CobraJoe said, this is more about HOV stickers for hybrids than it is about measurable changes in point to point emissions.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > kanadanmajava1
11/05/2018 at 15:39

Very hard to beat the energy density of a barrel of oil...

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > For Sweden
11/05/2018 at 15:41

Banned!!!!!

For Sweden > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
11/05/2018 at 15:47

Your account is Montana LLC tax evasion

Urambo Tauro > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
11/05/2018 at 15:49

All other things being equal, if initial purchase price, operating and maintenance costs remained the same... then yes. I am not so overly attached to internal combustion that I can’t have fun with angry pixies providing the propulsion.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Urambo Tauro
11/05/2018 at 15:57

Yeah, I’m pretty attached, too...

kanadanmajava1 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
11/05/2018 at 16:08

Yes, and it’s cheap solution.

Hydrogen has a good energy density but the difficult container make this fact irrelevant. Some specificity fuels for cruise missiles have also very good but they have other problems.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > kanadanmajava1
11/05/2018 at 16:18

Cheap, dense, portable, storable.

It’s no surprise we’re addicted to it.